A question for the veteran labbers

[JunaECBS]

How do you find and extend combos?

I've been wondering this for a while, while trying to work something out on my own. I know that experience is (always) a factor, and not everyone can (or needs to) lab everything, but I still have to ask: how, and how so quickly? Sure, I'm thinking of TFH's beta right now, with high damaging combos being dished out on day 1, but the answers don't have to be beta-related.

Do you keep trying until you find something that works? Do you simply expect this move to connect to that move? Do you get a feel for frame data and stuff, and theorize a path from there?

I hope this isn't an awkward question to ask; I'd love to hear some thoughts.

 

[Oreo]

When I was new to fighting games, I started by doing combos that other people came up with. But I quickly found that sticking to only doing those does a really bad job at teaching you the rules of the game. You're being told what works, rather than taking initiative to find out WHY things work. Eventually, I started using those combos as a base. I'd do other peoples' combos in training mode, but I'd break them up into pieces, and try to figure out why they did what they did. That way I could slowly understand what the game's combat system had to offer. Even now, if someone comes up with something I hadn't thought of (which happens a lot internally, since between Cam, Klisk, SonicFox, Nappy and myself, we have a pretty well rounded group of fighting game players), I'll take elements of what they did and combine them with what I was already doing.

As for TFH, the system is pretty straight-forward as far as combo limitations go. You're really only restricted by the limit on wall and ground bounces, OTGs, and the Juggle Decay system. Everything else will work as long as it has enough hitstun (there is an option in training mode to display a hitstun bar on your training dummy, so you have a graphical representation of how much time you have left to land your next hit after your previous one) for the next move to hit. When it comes to damage, it just comes down to MMO-style min-maxing. People typically look at what moves do the most damage, how the damage scaling rules apply, and how much each move adds to the Juggle Decay value, then either do hard math or trial-and-error to squeeze out the most damage that the available resources allow.

Hopefully that explanation helps you understand the different approaches people can have to figuring out combos, without giving a single hard answer that you have to follow. The creativity people have shown while playing the game so far has been really awesome to see, and I want to see more people doing stuff that we didn't think of even with 3 years of playing it.

 

[JunaECBS]

When I was new to fighting games, I started by doing combos that other people came up with. But I quickly found that sticking to only doing those does a really bad job at teaching you the rules of the game. You're being told what works, rather than taking initiative to find out WHY things work. Eventually, I started using those combos as a base. I'd do other peoples' combos in training mode, but I'd break them up into pieces, and try to figure out why they did what they did. That way I could slowly understand what the game's combat system had to offer. Even now, if someone comes up with something I hadn't thought of (which happens a lot internally, since between Cam, Klisk, SonicFox, Nappy and myself, we have a pretty well rounded group of fighting game players), I'll take elements of what they did and combine them with what I was already doing.

As for TFH, the system is pretty straight-forward as far as combo limitations go. You're really only restricted by the limit on wall and ground bounces, OTGs, and the Juggle Decay system. Everything else will work as long as it has enough hitstun (there is an option in training mode to display a hitstun bar on your training dummy, so you have a graphical representation of how much time you have left to land your next hit after your previous one) for the next move to hit. When it comes to damage, it just comes down to MMO-style min-maxing. People typically look at what moves do the most damage, how the damage scaling rules apply, and how much each move adds to the Juggle Decay value, then either do hard math or trial-and-error to squeeze out the most damage that the available resources allow.

Hopefully that explanation helps you understand the different approaches people can have to figuring out combos, without giving a single hard answer that you have to follow. The creativity people have shown while playing the game so far has been really awesome to see, and I want to see more people doing stuff that we didn't think of even with 3 years of playing it.

That is a nice approach, breaking already-found combos into smaller parts; but, apart of practicing the pieces to then string them together, finding out the "why" sounds like something that requires more experience than I have - I can identify which piece fits which, the starting conditions and the end result, but the "why"? How?

And there is this bit of "learning to learn" that I wish to know: if you were to pick up a new, traditional, 2D fighting game, what would you be looking for first?