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  • Them's Fightin' Herds

    Current Version: Early Access #23 11.28.2019

Requesting help with ground bounce combos and defense

Snivian Moon

How I mine for combo?
Backers' Beta Tester
I've been grinding out some practice since retail release (And will shamefully admit to being pretty bad), and at the moment I'm pretty decent at reliably getting down basic combos. I've been playing with Ole primarily, but with some Ari thrown in the mix from time to time. Move inputs don't seem to be too much of a problem for me, but I find that I'm struggling with quite a few things, of course. I was hoping I might be able to get some advice! Much appreciation in advance.

1.) While the standard combos aren't much issue for me, I seem to have a huge issue with continuing a combo after a wall splat or ground bounce. From what I've seen in videos and combo training, it should be possible to continue a combo after each of these, but I just seem to whiff the link every time. So like, when combo training tells me to Stand :B: after an Air :2::+::C:, I just never seem to connect with that, at all. It just seems to whiff after the opponent has had time to recover. I certainly can't seem to re-launch back into the air, either! Unlike the opponents who tend to float me in the corner forever :olliesad:

Additionally, it seems like I see people getting MANY more hits while airborne. It seems like it should be possible with Ole to go from a launcher to :C:, :B:, :C:, back into a launcher, but I can usually only ever get a single :C: and then my air combo is over. I know this somehow probably involves a double jump cancel of some sort, but to me it feels like by the time I've done that cancel, the opponent's already landed and/or is out of range.

I realize this is probably just my reaction speed being too slow, but I'm legitimately wondering if there's anything I can do to assess what I'm doing wrong and improve!

2.) This one is big: I need serious work on my defensive game. I find myself more or less getting pummeled into submission to the point that I can't participate in matches, and I gather that's because I'm pretty poor at defending myself. I don't mean just "Read High/Low blocks", so much as I mean, how do I react under that kind of pressure? Blocking forever just lets my opponent find an opening that much faster, so how should I be playing the defensive game, and what should my mindset be under pressure? Is there a way to reasonably improve the defensive game, and to learn how to "poke" back "safely"?

3.) I realize this probably comes with experience, but... Even though I'm learning as best I can, it sometimes feel like once I get into a match, everything I was able to do in practice evaporates and I fumble about! Are there any tips for keeping that information from fleeing my head at the first "Stampede!" and maintaining composure and control?

Sorry for the long post, but many thanks in advance for any help!
 
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ph00tbag

Backers' Beta Tester
Backers' Beta Tester
Oct 19, 2016
60
65
1. Moves have start-up. You need to start the move before your opponent falls into its hitbox. Sometimes this means starting the link ASAP, especially if the link is a heavy. Timing your cancels to happen just as the canceled move hits also helps a lot. When you get a ground bounce or wall splat, you generally want to start getting your follow-up the moment you can act, just to maintain the opponent's float.

2. Learn to Pushblock ( :atkatk: during blockstun). This will keep opponents away from you, and can even make them whiff, giving you an opening.

3. Keep playing, and when you do, focus less on winning, and more on just executing the things you learn in practice. Once your in-game execution is consistent, then you can think about how to win.
 
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Snivian Moon

How I mine for combo?
Backers' Beta Tester
Many thanks! I'll certainly take all this to heart, and I really appreciate the advice.

With regard to #1, I hope you don't mind if I ask a bit more: I tend to try to input the moves as soon as I'm physically able to - I still can't seem to get any more than a single :C: in while airborne, for some reason. Even if I hit :C:,:B:,:C:, I just can't seem to make it spit out any more than just :C:. Is there something else I ought to be doing there? It seems very similar when trying to follow up ground bounces. I'll push the button, but nothing seems to happen - Like I'm inputting during the execution or recovery frames of the previous move, even though everything's going in as fast as I'm able.
 

Neb

Backers' Beta Tester
Backers' Beta Tester
Feb 5, 2016
8
8
I keep trying to link the groundbounce with a c.a because it's so fast, but I've actually found more use out of c.b due to its upward hitbox on her horn, then you can go into a c.h or just launch immediately for more aerial hits.

For the air combos, usually avoid the light attack in the air combos, it doesn't seem to be worth it. Try doing launch j.b, j.c then tap up-forward to double jump toward the enemy and you can start the j.b j.c again, or even replace j.c with her down c groundbounce. It all happens pretty fast, so you can probably do this by just doing the buttons in that order as fast as you can without worrying too much about timing.

This may be a bit of a citation needed, but opponents that corner you I find often aren't dissuaded by pushblock. It's a great tool for midscreen trying to mess with them, but in the corner they can often keep rushing you if they're good. Try learning the "deadangle" move sometime. Press in the --> direction of your opponent and hit two attack buttons and you spend half a bar to do a "get off me" attack.

Lastly, if you hit with the very tip of Ollie's groundbounce, you might not actually end up with time to land and get an attack in. Probably wont happen much in combos, but sometime you can actually continue it by jumping out of that attack and hitting them with j.b on your way down while they're bouncing.
 
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Neb

Backers' Beta Tester
Backers' Beta Tester
Feb 5, 2016
8
8
Great! I hope this helps plenty!

A couple of other things I just thought of, if you're cornered with Oleander there's always the high risk high reward method. Down down D teleport (requires 1 magic) makes you invincible on startup, and makes the opponent regret having a "never stop attacking" mindset. If they block it you're in for a world of hurt, though. And if they're just bullying you into playing nothing but defense, sometimes switching gears into offense can throw them for a loop. An opponent that feels like he can't control everything is much easier to deal with. Just don't get too scared, it's a self fulfilling prophesy.

And being suddenly amazing isn't that important, just find someone at your skill level and make some friends. Nothing beats good back and forth matches at any skill level.
 
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