1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Them's Fightin' Herds is now out on Early Access!
    You can buy it from these links.
    Humble Bundle // Steam

  3. 26.6.18: Situation update

    Current Early Access Patch: 8-18-2018

Opinions on current game balance?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by JetN, Feb 28, 2018.

  1. JetN

    JetN Backers' Beta Tester
    Backers' Beta Tester

    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    42
    Hey I was just in a disagreement about whether or not the game seemed balanced or not. I main tian and overall I think the game is pretty well-balanced.

    I was wandering what everyone else was thinking.

    Edit: I recognize people are still figuring out how to play the game but I'd still like to know what their opinions are
     
    #1 JetN, Feb 28, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
  2. Petea Copine

    Petea Copine Crowdfund Backer
    Crowdfund Backer

    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    71
    I think Velvet has too much HP or it's too hard to cash in damage because of difficult combos

    also I think that down-C air attack on Oleander is too safe
     
    VendiMANS and JetN like this.
  3. JetN

    JetN Backers' Beta Tester
    Backers' Beta Tester

    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    42
    TOTALY agree about the air down C
     
    Erkicman and VendiMANS like this.
  4. Lurk

    Lurk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    233
    You might want to delete the other copy of this thread.
     
    JetN likes this.
  5. Svierrod

    Svierrod Backers' Beta Tester
    Backers' Beta Tester

    Messages:
    100
    Likes Received:
    57
    See, I don't think Oleander's j. :2::C: is too safe. I think it's too big. If you look at the hitbox, its horizontal range is actually farther than her j. :C:, for some reason. If the hitbox were smaller, it would be more reasonable to anti-air her. It would also mean that keeping her momentum going after hitting with her j. :C: at max range would require a little more thought and possibly some resources, rather than simply going into j. :2::C: at any range, at any height, regardless of whether the opponent was in the air or on the ground.

    If you're having a problem dealing with Oleander hopping around like a bat out of hell mashing that psychic headbutt, the range on that button is a big contributing factor. It's a jumping button, so there's really not much you can do to make it punishable. You don't beat it by "block and punish". You beat it by "stuff an anti-air in her face during startup", or by "dodge the attack and stuff a counterpoke in her face".

    And that's probably the reason some Oleander players will lean on this button pretty hard. It's safe on block, because it's an air button, but it's also decently fast, so it's hard to stuff with an anti-air on reaction, and it's also big, so dodging it takes a bit of doing, and even then, it can be hard for some characters to actually contest with that button anyway, and it's one of her most rewarding buttons if she does hit with it. It might be her slowest air button, but there probably needs to be at least one more reason to push other buttons in the air. I like the way this button feels, for the most part, but I'd be happier if it didn't reach as far.
     
    Erkicman, Pegapnea and JetN like this.
  6. Petea Copine

    Petea Copine Crowdfund Backer
    Crowdfund Backer

    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    71
    if i'm not mistaken somehow she beats my air-air foward A on arizona

    i have one frame of invincible leg on my standing C but i don't know if it's long enough to hit her out of it
     
  7. Lurk

    Lurk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    233
    How’s Arizona fairing in the balance department?
     
  8. JetN

    JetN Backers' Beta Tester
    Backers' Beta Tester

    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    42
    I haven't had much trouble fighting against Arizona as Tian. Tian has better combos but Arizona has better range so I think it's pretty fair. Anyone who's good with the rope is a serious threat, as intended.

    I do often find myself complaining about Arizona's Health though. She's got a lot of it. however I can't complain enough to say that it's broken. I think it's fine.
     
  9. Petea Copine

    Petea Copine Crowdfund Backer
    Crowdfund Backer

    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    71
    You need health with icicles and shadow magic flying around

    and dragon horses
     
    JetN likes this.
  10. qspec

    qspec Backers' Beta Tester
    Backers' Beta Tester

    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    60
    A lot of moves beat the 6A for all of the characters. I find it is reliable enough, but it is far from an answer to every jump-in attempt.
     
    JetN likes this.
  11. Jekijet

    Jekijet Salty Tryharder
    Backers' Beta Tester

    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    16
    There's something I don't get or I think it's kinda fishy but I have the strange feeling that Oleander is the weakest character, like she deals less damage than the others. Or maybe it's because I play mostly in unfair difficulty and bots are just OP and just hit you 4-5 times and you're already 2/3 life or mid life.

    I think Tian Huo is really one of the best character due to her aerial gameplay that allows her to overhead easely (she's actually a pain in the a** whe she fly over you like 3 times in a row.
     
  12. QuoteMarks

    QuoteMarks This is a bug.

    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    216
    It's the bot matches.
     
  13. Svierrod

    Svierrod Backers' Beta Tester
    Backers' Beta Tester

    Messages:
    100
    Likes Received:
    57
    If you're talking about Oleander's psychic headbutt, there's a good reason for that. It's the same thing I was talking about earlier, with the horizontal range. To be clear, this is the hitbox we're talking about:

    Hitbox.PNG

    Universal anti-air reduces the height of your vulnerable boxes, I think to the same height as crouching. If Oleander is close enough to the ground, she can still hit you. And if she's spaced properly, your UAA is just going to miss her completely. If she's low, she'll crush you, and if she's high, you'll both miss. Catching her with UAA is gonna be pretty specific; she has to be a decent bit closer than max range, and high enough for her headbutt to miss, but not so high up that your UAA can't reach her.
     
  14. VendiMANS

    VendiMANS the city of Buenos Aires has burned to the ground!

    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    64
    I think the game overall is pretty acceptable (at least we don't have someone like Ash from R6S that's super fast and doesn't have a head hitbox)

    ...I'm also against Oleander's down-c air
     
    JetN likes this.
  15. Petea Copine

    Petea Copine Crowdfund Backer
    Crowdfund Backer

    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    71
    Isn't there a meme about big red hurtboxes ?
     
  16. qspec

    qspec Backers' Beta Tester
    Backers' Beta Tester

    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    60
    My thoughts on "balance":

    Caveat: I am a Tianhuo player which will almost certainly inform my decision. I am also using the term balance loosely because I am more speaking about my subjective experience playing the game. I also believe the game is so new that any real discussion of balance is ultimately premature.

    Arizona:
    Strong. Arguably the best character in the game when played well which is fortunately a pretty rare thing.

    Oleander:
    My opinion on this MU is almost certainly tainted. As Tian, I don't know what to do. Her air moves seem to come out faster than mine, and her fireball and teleport give her wonderful space control. There's not a distance in the game that I feel great at in this MU.

    Paprika:
    Annoying as all hell with some filthy mix-ups, but I like the level of risk she has to take to open you up. I think she's reasonably fair.

    Pom:
    Maybe my most frustrating character... I don't understand her design, I don't think. J.c is that move that you know is coming and can still do nothing about. You can pushblock it, but that just puts her at the winning range for j.c, and getting close to a pogo-sticking Pom using j.c is far easier said than done. Throw her puppies into that for some added annoyance and lord does that character frustrate me. I think she's a contender with Arizona for the best character in the game.

    Tianhuo:
    I am almost certainly going to understate strengths and overstate weaknesses, so keep that in mind. She can be spooky because of her high/low options. She also has some nasty cross-up options. Once she gets a hit, she's an incredibly scary and annoying character. That said, getting a hit is frustratingly difficult. She can confirm off of just about any damn thing, so you just need one hit... but that's easier said than done. She gets pushblocked for days, and I don't really have a great option to it yet.

    Velvet:
    Probably my biggest unknown. Right now she seems to lag behind the others, but I also think she has a lot of room for exploration. I don't think we'll have a good she actually is for a few months more.

    My "tier" list (order per tier matters):

    A. Arizona, Pom
    B. Oleander, Tianhuo, Paprika
    C. Velvet (with a big question mark)
     
    JetN likes this.
  17. Mage

    Mage A Normal Person

    Messages:
    121
    Likes Received:
    461
    As an Oleander player, I actually agree with you that the matchup seems difficult (for Tianhuo). I believe the best choice is to jump in and block until you're in her face, as that is the range you're advantaged. Trying to open the Ollie from afar will just get you hit out of the air with a launcher or one of her other moves with great reach.

    Granted, Oleander is still dangerous at close quarters, since she is pretty good under pressure (second only to Arizona with magic/super and Pom with dogs, I'd say). If she has magic on deck, try and bait out a Magic Teleport for a punish, and if she has no magic, be relentless. The key in this situation is to not mistime any moves. If you miss while you have her in the corner, she's likely to hit you or teleport away (the latter of which could be punished if you weren't moving).

    If you want to know my greatest fear against Tianhuo, it's the sky mixup. That thing you snek people do where you fly up so high nothing can reach you and I can't even see my character, and then you come down for a potential crossup. It's really annoying, especially if it's a fakeout and I get punished for trying to stop it. My best defense against that is throwing some Chapter Traps around lol.
     
    JetN likes this.
  18. qspec

    qspec Backers' Beta Tester
    Backers' Beta Tester

    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    60
    If it helps, you can magic teleport to punish our sky approach if it is telegraphed.
     
  19. Ravvij

    Ravvij Arizona, kick!

    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    3
    The only problem I have with any character, so far, is Oleander. Her hitboxes are HUGE and annoying. Getting in close to her is a pain with Arizona, and Tianhuo. Not sure if it's easier with other characters, yet, but I hate coming up against Oleander.
     
    Bucaramangaman likes this.
  20. Bucaramangaman

    Bucaramangaman Multimedia Engineer
    Crowdfund Backer

    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    33
    (From a frustrated paprika[for fighting so many oleanders])
    Tianhuo is retarded
    Oleander is retarded
    Oli has every option you could ask from a char, amaizing neutral game .
    Tian on the other hand doesn't care about neutral game, she can just fly as annoyingly as magneto in umvc3. and jesus christ that insta cross up!!! what were they thinking???

    Some people believe that instead of nerfing, the other chars should get more buffs to equalize the battlefield, i wish Dev's could give this principle a chance.
    Please admins, this game needs a balance that i don't know why it hasn't been addressed from way back before, all that broken stuff aint new. Maybe you are following that principle of adapt, blah blah blah.
    But just try to play Pap vs Oli and you´ll know what i mean.
     
    VendiMANS likes this.
  21. Kastor

    Kastor Active Member

    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    37
    Olli is the most universally hard to beat character. I don't mean she's always the hardest to beat, but I mean no other character considers her a less than even matchup. They are either even or at a disadvantage.
     
    Erkicman, JetN and Bucaramangaman like this.
  22. Bucaramangaman

    Bucaramangaman Multimedia Engineer
    Crowdfund Backer

    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    33
    I hope Devs read this.

    Oleander should NOT gain meter by normal means while Fred is out.
    This ^ is a must for the game balance, if you don't believe me, just look how MvC manages most summon/powerup supers. The morrigan problem was always pointed by the fact that she was one of the fews that gained meter (which was bad balancing), while zero didn't (broken for other reasons thou)
     
    #22 Bucaramangaman, Apr 28, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2018
  23. VendiMANS

    VendiMANS the city of Buenos Aires has burned to the ground!

    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    64
    Does anyone know if the devs are reading this? or if they are at least aware that half the cast need some more balancing?
    (I know that story mode is their first priority but still)
     
    Bucaramangaman likes this.
  24. Songhacker

    Songhacker Backers' Beta Tester
    Backers' Beta Tester

    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    122
    It'd be cool if she could still get it with moves that steal it while Fred is out, but yeah otherwise it feels like a sort of unbalanced characteristic, with BMM highlighting a decent example from UMvC3. That said, Oreo was a big Marvel player, so I'm sure that kind of thing doesn't escape him.
     
  25. IcefireInfinite

    IcefireInfinite The Eternal Dragon
    Crowdfund Backer

    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    13
    As a Tian main, the range game played by Velvet and Oleander is one of my most hated attack strategies, especially in the higher level difficulties in the salt mines. Being a pretty strict close quarters fighter doesn't leave many options to attack against sudden icicles and other ranged attacks, and that chip damage from Oleander's super sucks big time.
    The air maneuverability I have becomes my saving grace though, only barely against someone who knows their way around that.