• Them's Fightin' Herds is available now on Steam for PC!
    You can buy it from these links:
    Humble Bundle // Steam

  • Current Game Version

    2.0.3 (4.10.2021)

Oleander and Velvet a little OP?

Gryphon BBQ

Backers' Beta Tester
Backers' Beta Tester
Feb 4, 2016
17
6
I made a test run of the game now that it's released, I know that it's on early access but it's open to the general public.
I tested again changes from the beta and noticed that two thing haven't changed, the extreme Ai difficulty and Velvet & Oleander amount of damage they deal with their attacks. I noticed this more on Velvet but playing with Tianhuo (for example) the fight was still going in the time I could've finished with Velvet.
Oleander is still strong with the projectiles and ranged attacks but not as strong as Velvet. I'm not talking about nerfing them but balancing the others up because the damage is just right.
 

ph00tbag

Backers' Beta Tester
Backers' Beta Tester
Oct 19, 2016
67
72
Velvet's single hits are pretty powerful, but if she's keeping her opponent at fullscreen like she should, she's also getting pretty low combo damage, and she doesn't have much HP if her opponent is able to get past her zone. This is pretty par for the course for zoning characters. Compare her to Tianhuo for instance, and her expected output and throughput are actually pretty low.
 

Yeena

local forum predator npc
Backers' Beta Tester
Feb 3, 2016
62
221
straight outta wawa
twitch.tv
Don't know much about Oleander - Velvet's my specialty - but the bulk of her damage should come from zoning. Her combo damage is relatively low unless she uses magic for wind loops or snowflake tricks. Fights against good zoners SHOULD go on as you describe.

Find a way around her ice and wind? She'll have a hard time getting back to neutral.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Salty Beef

Quinn95

Crowdfund Backer
Crowdfund Backer
Feb 17, 2018
1
3
The game has been out for less than a day. I urge everyone to wait at least 6 months before saying that a character is overpowered. It's way to early to judge, and projectile based characters always seem strong to newer players.
 

Gryphon BBQ

Backers' Beta Tester
Backers' Beta Tester
Feb 4, 2016
17
6
Velvet's single hits are pretty powerful, but if she's keeping her opponent at fullscreen like she should, she's also getting pretty low combo damage, and she doesn't have much HP if her opponent is able to get past her zone. This is pretty par for the course for zoning characters. Compare her to Tianhuo for instance, and her expected output and throughput are actually pretty low.
Well, I'm not talking about reaching her, because there's always an strategy. My point is that I went to training mode and checked it by myself... she deals a damn lot of damage, way too much compared to others. Just try the equivalent attacks and see it by yourself, she is OP.
With Oleander is almost the same but not as much as Velvet.
 

Falco

Ace Pilot
Backers' Beta Tester
Feb 4, 2016
23
39
Australia
Well, I'm not talking about reaching her, because there's always an strategy. My point is that I went to training mode and checked it by myself... she deals a damn lot of damage, way too much compared to others. Just try the equivalent attacks and see it by yourself, she is OP.
With Oleander is almost the same but not as much as Velvet.
To be honest, Velvet was rarely played until her recent changes which gave her an overhead and a standing low. I guess it would be fair to give her high damage moves when she has nothing going for her in terms of cross ups and resets. See Ari and Pap, even though they dont hit as hard but they can get resets/cross ups on you which would hurt more overall.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Yeena

ph00tbag

Backers' Beta Tester
Backers' Beta Tester
Oct 19, 2016
67
72
Well, I'm not talking about reaching her, because there's always an strategy. My point is that I went to training mode and checked it by myself... she deals a damn lot of damage, way too much compared to others. Just try the equivalent attacks and see it by yourself, she is OP.
With Oleander is almost the same but not as much as Velvet.
Her single-move damage output has never made her OP before. Her combos do about average damage, and her throughput relies more on chip than on actual hits, a strategy that would be hurt badly by a damage nerf.
 

Silk_Sk

Crowdfund Backer
Crowdfund Backer
Feb 24, 2018
9
11
Oleander yes, Velvet no. Oleander is like Velvet, except with massive air attack boxes, a teleport, and an incredible 2nd stage super. Velvet is fantastic at range, but her air attacks are a nightmare to land with, she has zero mobility, and her 2nd stage super is beyond useless. She has great range and great damage, but everything else is pretty underwhelming.
 

CluelessDetective

Active Member
Jan 24, 2018
30
56
I'm maining Velvet right now and honestly I don't think she's OP, probably in the bottom 3 of the 6 if I'm being honest. I love playing her but when people get in and place you in the corner it's insanely hard to get out. The only to way to is being able to pushblock them far enough that you can predict correctly use of the her low, anti-air, or overhead special and gain momentum back. They have such low start-up that using them that close without the pushblock is a death sentence. It also seems like a lot of her things on block is unsafe more so than most of the cast.

She might have the highest damage, especially with her (imo) godlike level 1, but combos yield super low damage and her level 2 is the worst of the cast since the debuff it gives lasts like a split second and its not nearly enough time for you to capitalize on it unlike Tian's install or Ole's Fred.

TL;DR- Velvet might have super high damage and can keep people out but other than that everything else in the corner is okay at best and death sentence at worst so I honestly think she's pretty balanced.
 

Yeena

local forum predator npc
Backers' Beta Tester
Feb 3, 2016
62
221
straight outta wawa
twitch.tv
oleander for me is pretty fun to fight mostly because i only use paprika and it becomes a teleport fight, but velvet is always too busy drinking tea on another continent for me to fight her.
I feel like Paprika is one of Velvet's worst match-ups, if not her worst. She has some really good options for my zoning shenanigans - against a good Pap, I never feel like I can commit to a zoning pattern, which isn't how I feel when I play literally everyone else. (Do I have to be careful? Yes. But, man, Pap will sail those seven seas to give Velvet a big ol' smooch. She's just that dedicated).

Well, I'm not talking about reaching her, because there's always an strategy. My point is that I went to training mode and checked it by myself... she deals a damn lot of damage, way too much compared to others. Just try the equivalent attacks and see it by yourself, she is OP.
In combos, though? Ehn, not so much. JD and combo scaling keep them pretty average in terms of damage. Hell, her wind loops cause more JD now, so she probably can't even loop you 5+ times anymore.

Her most damaging moves are pretty high risk - her shatters - huge startup and hella negative on block. She shouldn't be coming up to you and hitting you raw with them. If she is, she's really making herself vulnerable to getting put in a blender. Exploit that. (High shatter is the only thing you can get a combo off anyway. You can go into super off of low or m shatter, which is a good bit of damage, but again - hard to hit, meant to discourage opponents from approaching).

Her normals are average compared across the cast, and as for her projectiles? They should do a lot. Because she's a zoner, and that's how good Velvets want damage. I'm talking, like 50-75% of her damage should come from them.

Her single-move damage output has never made her OP before. Her combos do about average damage, and her throughput relies more on chip than on actual hits, a strategy that would be hurt badly by a damage nerf.
Yes. This..

CluelessDetective said:
I'm maining Velvet right now and honestly I don't think she's OP, probably in the bottom 3 of the 6 if I'm being honest. I love playing her but when people get in and place you in the corner it's insanely hard to get out. The only to way to is being able to pushblock them far enough that you can predict correctly use of the her low, anti-air, or overhead special and gain momentum back. They have such low start-up that using them that close without the pushblock is a death sentence. It also seems like a lot of her things on block is unsafe more so than most of the cast.

She might have the highest damage, especially with her (imo) godlike level 1, but combos yield super low damage and her level 2 is the worst of the cast since the debuff it gives lasts like a split second and its not nearly enough time for you to capitalize on it unlike Tian's install or Ole's Fred.

TL;DR- Velvet might have super high damage and can keep people out but other than that everything else in the corner is okay at best and death sentence at worst so I honestly think she's pretty balanced.
Eeyup.
 

Star Catcher

Backers' Beta Tester
Backers' Beta Tester
Feb 4, 2016
17
23
As an Ole player, the big thing that you have to consider is that her most powerful moves require that she sit down and read to set up. Because of this I'd almost consider her a psuedo-zoner rather than a zone character to the same extent as Velvet. While I do feel her aerial Down Strong can be a bit much, I'd consider this a hitbox problem rather than a damage problem.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JetN
Top