Let's Make Some Guesses

Nivek_Draco

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Who wants to bet that since it is common for Lauren Faust to not put male characters and/or portray male characters in a subtle negative light in works that she influence, there will be no male playable characters.
 

Illusion Melody

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Who wants to bet that since it is common for Lauren Faust to not put male characters and/or portray male characters in a subtle negative light in works that she influence, there will be no male playable characters.
I think that there will be one male charachter in the game that you can play as maybe.
 

0Zero100

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Who wants to bet that since it is common for Lauren Faust to not put male characters and/or portray male characters in a subtle negative light in works that she influence, there will be no male playable characters.
OBJECTION! I think the game will include 1, maybe 2, male characters. Case in point: On December, 29 of 2015...
...
...
I got nothin'. I just really doubt that there wouldn't be a male character. Probably not in the initial release, but maybe as DLC later on, after the game is finished.
 

CrpCrwls

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Who wants to bet that since it is common for Lauren Faust to not put male characters and/or portray male characters in a subtle negative light in works that she influence, there will be no male playable characters.
I'm not sure what you are refering too, it's not like she portray her female charaters as parangon of virtue. I'd say all her characters tend to be well rounded, with flaws and weaknesses as well as strengths.

Anyway I'm pretty sure she said in one of the stream that she wasn't planning to create an all female cast, it's just that the seven first (including goat) happened to be female, and that there would totally be some males characters.
 

Avering

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If I finish with work I can look it up, or you can check an other thread where it was already asked. She said there is no reason not to include male characters.

And by the by simply coming up with characters in your own gender is just easier.
 

Avering

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Who wants to bet that since it is common for Lauren Faust to not put male characters and/or portray male characters in a subtle negative light in works that she influence, there will be no male playable characters.
Here ya go, at 17:00 if it does not start there for some reason.
 

CrpCrwls

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Does the above post basically end the thread LOL
I'm not sure, the thread title only refer to general guessing. Maybe it's just for guessing and it's just that Nivek only had that as a suggestion in his first post. Maybe we can guess about other things now.

I'm kinda wondering if that was meant as trolling though because I still can't figure out what the hell they were talking about, "subtle negative light" that's so vague I have no idea what that actually mean. Or rather I do but I really don't see where they got the impression that there was any hint of prejudice against male characters in Lauren's work: like I said all her characters are balanced, she just tend to prefer female casts. Which is alright considering the overwhelming majority of all male or almost all male casts in media.
 

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If it doesn't include atleast 3 new playable characters, 5 new arenas, a new story mode, 12 new music tracks and entire mini-game system for the lobby I will be disappointed
 
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0Zero100

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If it doesn't include atleast 3 new playable characters, 5 new arenas, a new story mode, 12 new music tracks and entire mini-game system for the lobby I will be disappointed
And an in-depth character customization screen, with 3-D graphics and the ability to pitch their voices into silly sounding ungulates. (Deep voice Pom saying: "Am I cute?")
 

CrpCrwls

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I bet the Devourer isn't even a corporeal creature, he is just some kind of spirit of hunger, a personification of starving gluttony, unable to feed for it has no mouth, it can only feel some peace in seeing the predators feast on flesh. It may even be the manifestation of the concentrated hunger of all the predators, born from their craving for the flesh of all ungulates as it was starved during their imprisonment in the hold.
 
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Feanor

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I bet the Devourer isn't even a corporeal creature, he is just some kind of spirit of hunger, a personification of starving gluttony, unable to feed for it has no mouth, it can only feel some peace in seeing the predators feast on flesh. It may even be the manifestation of the concentrated hunger of all the predators, born from their craving for the flesh of all ungulates as it was starved during their imprisonment in the hold.
Hmmm, that's a neat idea. I still like a Doomsday type ultimate apex predator idea though
 

Nivek_Draco

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I bet the Devourer isn't even a corporeal creature, he is just some kind of spirit of hunger, a personification of starving gluttony, unable to feed for it has no mouth, it can only feel some peace in seeing the predators feast on flesh. It may even be the manifestation of the concentrated hunger of all the predators, born from their craving for the flesh of all ungulates as it was starved during their imprisonment in the hold.
I imagine him as a twisted Pac-Man, or the Devourer from Spirit Animals crossovered.

And an in-depth character customization screen, with 3-D graphics and the ability to pitch their voices into silly sounding ungulates. (Deep voice Pom saying: "Am I cute?")
DOVAHKIN
DOVAHKIN
NOT A SINGLE SARDINE
FOR THE LIGHT
FOR THE WOLF
FOR THE GARDEN OF SKY

I'm not sure, the thread title only refer to general guessing. Maybe it's just for guessing and it's just that Nivek only had that as a suggestion in his first post. Maybe we can guess about other things now.

I'm kinda wondering if that was meant as trolling though because I still can't figure out what the hell they were talking about, "subtle negative light" that's so vague I have no idea what that actually mean. Or rather I do but I really don't see where they got the impression that there was any hint of prejudice against male characters in Lauren's work: like I said all her characters are balanced, she just tend to prefer female casts. Which is alright considering the overwhelming majority of all male or almost all male casts in media.
You know: Arizona's dad is an overprotective jerk; Blitzen is a love struck idiot; Paprika's entire tribe are emos; Only male Longmas seem to be the bullies aside from Tianhuo, and the male bullies had no redemption; FRED is so obviously evil it hurts; Pom's tribe seem to be mostly males and they're all stupid beyond comprehension.

Now here's some other examples: Every male character in Powerpuff Girls are either evil or incompetent; Every male character in Lawyer Friendly Equines are ether stupid or incompetent; ETC.
 
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Stunthead

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You know: Arizona's dad is an overprotective jerk; Blitzen is a love struck idiot; Paprika's entire tribe are emos; Only male Longmas seem to be the bullies aside from Tianhuo, and the male bullies had no redemption; FRED is so obviously evil it hurts; Pom's tribe seem to be mostly males and they're all stupid beyond comprehension.

Now here's some other examples: Every male character in Powerpuff Girls are either evil or incompetent; Every male character in Lawyer Friendly Equines are ether stupid or incompetent; ETC.
...But... that's not true though... Professor Utonium, Big Mcintosh, Mr. Cake, they're not evil or incompetent... Soarin' and Spike are a little simple but I wouldn't call them incompetent. That's far from "EVERY male character." And she helped develop Foster's Home, which had plenty of great male characters.

Plus it's never suggested that ANY of the tribes in TFH are "mostly male." Ari's Dad was the antagonist, but he wasn't evil, and he even saw the error of his ways at the end. I didn't think The Blitz was shown to be any more stupid or flawed than any other Reindeer, and being love struck hasn't changed that. Honestly, other than the bullies, I'd say the most antagonistic character in any of the backstories is The High Priestess of the Order of the Horn, who was female. And don't forget about Honored Father.

So, no, I strongly disagree. Going back to the original question, Lauren stated in one of the Livestreams that she's keen to put in a playable male character in the future. There's a thread that lists facts gathered from streams, you can find it if you browse through that.
 

CrpCrwls

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This ^

To me Nivek, it look like you are concentrating on the male characters' flaws and completely ignoring everything else about them. What is your definition of "incompetent" by the way? There are plenty of male characters in Lawyer Friendly Equines who are perfectly good at doing their jobs (can't really say for powerpuff girls, I did not watch that much of it and it was long ago).
If by incompetent you mean "they don't help solve/fight the problem/monster of the week" I think you're wrong again, there where times when background characters helped with the plot including male ones.
 
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Leatherface

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I wouldn't call the male characters incompetent in terms of doing their jobs (possibly except for Spike - his assistance was a complete detriment to AJ in that one episode where he became her assistant).

What i would say is that generally, they don't play a major role in solving an episode's problem. Spike is probably the most major male character in the series, and yet I only remember him having a major contribution in The Glue Factory games and power ponies.

Ultimately, the male characters just seem kind of 'there'. Not bumbling or incompetent, but not really that helpful either.
 

CrpCrwls

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Well duh, males characters in Lawyer Friendly Equines are mainly background or secondary characters not main, of course they generally don't help with the plot, resolving the plot is the main characters' job description. And Spike is a sidekick, he help sometimes but 80% of the time he's basically just cleaning up a mess he created. Still the show recognize the usefulness of the males characters, Shining Armor got his magic blocked during the Crystal Empire episode because the fact that he couldn't help moved the plot forward and forced the main character to act quickly as Executive Mandated Toy Hoers wouldn't be able to maintain the city wide shield by herself much longer. I wouldn't say that male characters are incompetent because when they have to join the fight or help with the plot they tend to be useful (then again when the main six have to ask for help from background characters it's because these background character have skills or powers they need).
 

Avering

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I guess: the key will be actually made from Fred's missing horn. And he'll want it back in some way (not necessarily evil way)
 

Nivek_Draco

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Well duh, males characters in Lawyer Friendly Equines are mainly background or secondary characters not main, of course they generally don't help with the plot, resolving the plot is the main characters' job description. And Spike is a sidekick, he help sometimes but 80% of the time he's basically just cleaning up a mess he created. Still the show recognize the usefulness of the males characters, Shining Armor got his magic blocked during the Crystal Empire episode because the fact that he couldn't help moved the plot forward and forced the main character to act quickly as Executive Mandated Toy Hoers wouldn't be able to maintain the city wide shield by herself much longer. I wouldn't say that male characters are incompetent because when they have to join the fight or help with the plot they tend to be useful (then again when the main six have to ask for help from background characters it's because these background character have skills or powers they need).
So it still goes back to the obvious: Lawyer Friendly Equines is not made for males, and if I am looking for male representation in media, I should probably not watch it.

But I do, so I guess it's my fault for watching a show that disses my gender demographic.
 

0Zero100

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So it still goes back to the obvious: Lawyer Friendly Equines is not made for males, and if I am looking for male representation in media, I should probably not watch it.

But I do, so I guess it's my fault for watching a show that disses my gender demographic.
Not "disses" outright, more like, "doesn't make the most use of."
 

Nivek_Draco

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Not "disses" outright, more like, "doesn't make the most use of."
I almost linked you to a tumblr blog explaining how all male villains in Lawyer Friendly Equines are unapologetic while the female ones were redeemed, but I knew better than to link anything to tumblr
 

0Zero100

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I almost linked you to a tumblr blog explaining how all male villains in Lawyer Friendly Equines are unapologetic while the female ones were redeemed, but I knew better than to link anything to tumblr
I was about to say "Discord", but thinking about it, he's more annoying than anything. (A pretty apt description of males from a female POV.) And thanks for no Tumblr. I can only really remember the Diamond Dogs being "Mean" to Rarara... and Blueblood being "Mean" to Rarara, man Rarara takes a lot of S**t. Other than that, I can't really remember any other dude antagonists in the first 2 seasons when Lauren was on. After season 2, I can DEFINITELY see what you're talking about with the "No redemption for dudes" thing, what with Sombra and Tirek. I'm not sure where to stand on this topic. So I won't stay here much longer!
 

CrpCrwls

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I almost linked you to a tumblr blog explaining how all male villains in Lawyer Friendly Equines are unapologetic while the female ones were redeemed, but I knew better than to link anything to tumblr
There are only like three actual "villains" in Lawyer Friendly Equines so far: Queen Chrysalis, King Sombra and Tirek. By villain I mean actually evil, no just bullies or shameless capitalists. And as Zero said Discord isn't really a villain, he isn't "Chaotic evil" more like "Chaotic neutral". Anyway neither of the three real bad guys are redeemed in serie. However Tirek and Sombra get beaten for good while Chrysalis is still running free... and if you add the comic...

Sombra get redeemed! Or rather... he chose to be good... while he had already won. If "turn good even as he was victorious over the good guys" doesn't spell redeemed for you I don't know what I can say. (Also there was a mirror universe in which he was good and Sunbottom Tyrant and Luna were bad, the difference in power was too great so he sacrificed himself, drawing all their evil into himself so they would become good, saving his The Glue Factory at the cost of his soul. I'd say that's pretty heroic.)

So you have two real villains, Chrysalis and Tirek, one female, the other male, unredeemed. And in the comic Bookworm Hoers really tried to redeem Chrysalis when she and her changelings were temporarily jailed. Yep I said "temporarily" because Chrysalis used that to escape with her swarm... In my opinion Chrysalis is the only proper villain of the show. At the very least she's the only one still out there being a threat.

If you're including the minor antagonists... I think it's pretty even. You also have to consider the proportion of what they do. Trixie boast about her magic and bullies people, accidentally prompt Snip and Snail to unleash a monster on Ponyville, flees after Bookworm Hoers save the day, come back to take over, get beaten. At that point she has the choice between going on the run or being redeemed, if she run she'll probably be pursued because she proved to be dangerous. The Flim Flam Bros, they try to set up an industrial cider production, beat the main character by sacrificing quality for quantity, turns out people don't like the resulting cider, they go away because they see they can't make a Bit. Come back with a scam, get called out, flee. Don't get redeemed, don't get pursued, because they aren't dangerous. Lightning Dust, show merciless competitive spirit, even if it's dangerous to others, get kicked out of the wonderbolts because of it, no hint of redemption watsoever, not even in the comic, not even after someone use her grudge against Gottagofast to help Chrysalis invade the Chrystal Empire as a dristration while someone else frees Sombra...

Also if you're going to oversimplify the characters like you did with the males from the book of lore... you do realize anyone can do pretty much the same with any characters from any serie. Even the main six on Lawyer Friendly Equines. It's pretty easy even... they all have some obvious flaws... which are, admitedly, usually tied to their qualities as well but hey that has never stopped a biased point of view.
 

Nivek_Draco

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There are only like three actual "villains" in Lawyer Friendly Equines so far: Queen Chrysalis, King Sombra and Tirek. By villain I mean actually evil, no just bullies or shameless capitalists. And as Zero said Discord isn't really a villain, he isn't "Chaotic evil" more like "Chaotic neutral". Anyway neither of the three real bad guys are redeemed in serie. However Tirek and Sombra get beaten for good while Chrysalis is still running free... and if you add the comic...

Sombra get redeemed! Or rather... he chose to be good... while he had already won. If "turn good even as he was victorious over the good guys" doesn't spell redeemed for you I don't know what I can say. (Also there was a mirror universe in which he was good and Sunbottom Tyrant and Luna were bad, the difference in power was too great so he sacrificed himself, drawing all their evil into himself so they would become good, saving his The Glue Factory at the cost of his soul. I'd say that's pretty heroic.)

So you have two real villains, Chrysalis and Tirek, one female, the other male, unredeemed. And in the comic Bookworm Hoers really tried to redeem Chrysalis when she and her changelings were temporarily jailed. Yep I said "temporarily" because Chrysalis used that to escape with her swarm... In my opinion Chrysalis is the only proper villain of the show. At the very least she's the only one still out there being a threat.

If you're including the minor antagonists... I think it's pretty even. You also have to consider the proportion of what they do. Trixie boast about her magic and bullies people, accidentally prompt Snip and Snail to unleash a monster on Ponyville, flees after Bookworm Hoers save the day, come back to take over, get beaten. At that point she has the choice between going on the run or being redeemed, if she run she'll probably be pursued because she proved to be dangerous. The Flim Flam Bros, they try to set up an industrial cider production, beat the main character by sacrificing quality for quantity, turns out people don't like the resulting cider, they go away because they see they can't make a Bit. Come back with a scam, get called out, flee. Don't get redeemed, don't get pursued, because they aren't dangerous. Lightning Dust, show merciless competitive spirit, even if it's dangerous to others, get kicked out of the wonderbolts because of it, no hint of redemption watsoever, not even in the comic, not even after someone use her grudge against Gottagofast to help Chrysalis invade the Chrystal Empire as a dristration while someone else frees Sombra...

Also if you're going to oversimplify the characters like you did with the males from the book of lore... you do realize anyone can do pretty much the same with any characters from any serie. Even the main six on Lawyer Friendly Equines. It's pretty easy even... they all have some obvious flaws... which are, admitedly, usually tied to their qualities as well but hey that has never stopped a biased point of view.
My point is: The female characters each have their own unique character flaws and conflicts, and the flaws were justified using character development and later resolved using that justification, but the males mainly have the same flaw, and that flaw was justified simply using "because they're jerks" and the flaw or conflict was never resolved, or resolved in death. To me, that's generalization.
 

CrpCrwls

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My point is: The female characters each have their own unique character flaws and conflicts, and the flaws were justified using character development and later resolved using that justification, but the males mainly have the same flaw, and that flaw was justified simply using "because they're jerks" and the flaw or conflict was never resolved, or resolved in death. To me, that's generalization.
I'm going to guess that you are only talking about the villainous male characters here because the good one have clearly different weaknesses and are almost never shown to be jerks...

Well if you consider only Tyrek and Sombra, the males big bads, and only as they appear on the show you seem to have a point, as their only apparent motivation is being power hungry. However when taking the comics into account that no longer applies to Sombra (who by the way, isn't dead).

As for the minor villains... Same flaw? Really? The Flim Flam brothers aren't power hungry, just greedy. Dr. Caballeron is also greedy. Iron Will isn't power hungry or greedy, just too headstrong for his own good (that also get resolved in the comic by the way...). The Diamond Dogs are obessed with gems (not the same as being greedy). Now Garble's whole character was pretty much "teenage jerk" but that's still different from the others. Wind Rider wanted to keep his fame even if he didn't deserve it anymore. Svengallop is pretty much the only minor male villain that can be described as "power hungry" and he had other flaws beside that, such as being controlling and petty. Ahuizotl's motivations and goals are a bit nebulous I'll admit, but his plan to cause eight hundred year of unrelenting heat seems to indicate he's in it for more than greed, and maybe not for power over people.
 

Nivek_Draco

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I'm going to guess that you are only talking about the villainous male characters here because the good one have clearly different weaknesses and are almost never shown to be jerks...

Well if you consider only Tyrek and Sombra, the males big bads, and only as they appear on the show you seem to have a point, as their only apparent motivation is being power hungry. However when taking the comics into account that no longer applies to Sombra (who by the way, isn't dead).

As for the minor villains... Same flaw? Really? The Flim Flam brothers aren't power hungry, just greedy. Dr. Caballeron is also greedy. Iron Will isn't power hungry or greedy, just too headstrong for his own good (that also get resolved in the comic by the way...). The Diamond Dogs are obessed with gems (not the same as being greedy). Now Garble's whole character was pretty much "teenage jerk" but that's still different from the others. Wind Rider wanted to keep his fame even if he didn't deserve it anymore. Svengallop is pretty much the only minor male villain that can be described as "power hungry" and he had other flaws beside that, such as being controlling and petty. Ahuizotl's motivations and goals are a bit nebulous I'll admit, but his plan to cause eight hundred year of unrelenting heat seems to indicate he's in it for more than greed, and maybe not for power over people.
But still, when a female character messes up, it's completely justified, such as Queen Chrysalis wanting to feed her people, when a male character messes up, there's no reason, such as Discord creating chaos just because. Also, we can't ignore the symbolisms in Dragon Quest: the Dragons are completely male, and they are violent jerks, the Pony characters are mainly female, and Spike chose to be Pony-like in the end.
 

CrpCrwls

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Pretty sure Discord create chaos because it's a part of him, just like eating love is a part of the changelings. But even if you don't accept that, Sombra as just as much reason as Chrysalis for doing what he does (his objective was to free his people, also he was pissed the princess of Crystal Empire allowed him to suffer during the Crystal Fair for YEARS even though she knew why he was suffering). As for the dragons, species tend to work better with multiples genders... but when there is only one it usually isn't the male one. I'm guessing at least some of the dragons we saw on the show were female, it probably just never came up, as for the teenagers in Dragon quest... well... teenagers. Probably separated in social cliques.

To be clear, I'm not saying that the male representation in Lawyer Friendly Equines is perfect, but the way you formulated it it sounded like you were accusing Lauren of purposefully promoting some kind of anti-male agenda. Which I find preposterous : the males characters in Lawyer Friendly Equines are better represented than females ones on most shows!

EDIT: just remembered that dragons also get more devellopped in the comic, the ones Spike had meet in Dragon Quest are said to be the exception, not the rule, just like there are jerk among ponies.
 
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Nivek_Draco

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Pretty sure Discord create chaos because it's a part of him, just like eating love is a part of the changelings. But even if you don't accept that, Sombra as just as much reason as Chrysalis for doing what he does (his objective was to free his people, also he was pissed the princess of Crystal Empire allowed him to suffer during the Crystal Fair for YEARS even though she knew why he was suffering). As for the dragons, species tend to work better with multiples genders... but when there is only one it usually isn't the male one. I'm guessing at least some of the dragons we saw on the show were female, it probably just never came up, as for the teenagers in Dragon quest... well... teenagers. Probably separated in social cliques.

To be clear, I'm not saying that the male representation in Lawyer Friendly Equines is perfect, but the way you formulated it it sounded like you were accusing Lauren of purposefully promoting some kind of anti-male agenda. Which I find preposterous : the males characters in Lawyer Friendly Equines are better represented than females ones on most shows!

EDIT: just remembered that dragons also get more devellopped in the comic, the ones Spike had meet in Dragon Quest are said to be the exception, not the rule, just like there are jerk among ponies.
Well, since you made your valid point that Lawyer Friendly Equines is not misandrist, the only real thing I can say now is: Thank God it wasn't.
 

0Zero100

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Is it over? Man, (Ungulate) this conversation has been going on for quite a bit. Then again that's the whole reason for this thread, to talk about "guesses". What's next?
 

Nivek_Draco

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Is it over? Man, (Ungulate) this conversation has been going on for quite a bit. Then again that's the whole reason for this thread, to talk about "guesses". What's next?
Here's a thoughtful question: Will TFH be as meta as Undertale?














Actually, cross that out, nothing will be as meta as Undertale
 

TigerKirby215

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Not in the initial cast, no.

I believe I personally asked this on one of the streams. Lauren said that she is planning on including male characters, but none of the "Ungulate 6" are going to be male, and neither is Goat. Because #Femenism


But don't quote me on that. I'm not too sure. :p
 
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