- Apr 10, 2018
The ropes having 1 active frame is part of the changes, I'm sure. I think Oreo just typo'd there. For the ropes being a command grab, 1 frame is proper to check for the state that the character is in at the moment and more would be unnecessary; punishing people way harder for flinching. The amount of the recovery of rope stops Arizona from being a monster wall of grabs in the midscreen that would be way too oppressive to deal with. For Velvet, just because of the nature of the character, you can't really make snowflakes too much worse or they become REALLY bad. What I would give serious thought to is giving Arizona more lasso angles instead of having to rely on 6As or super jump buttons just to stop Tian from flying in that easy to get to dead zone.I'm sorry? based on this, each rope has one active frame. So unless training mode is wrong, rope has less active frames than Arizona's pitiful jab, and the recovery on a whiffed rope is almost a whole second. Whiffing it is a death sentence and were it any other character, that kind of thing would get significantly buffed, such as velvet's icicles turned snowflakes making half her moves completely safe and + on block. If the reward for hitting 5D is just a stagger that can only be used effectively at the beginning of a combo, having it hit air would be like making Pap's kiss refund JD.
I kind of agree with 2D being a slightly better rope than 5D because of the potential Arizona gets from 2D to knowledge check people. I think that the fact that people could prefer 2D or 5D and vice versa is an example of good design since we don't all play the characters the same way and don't want to. I think they both have their place and that's important.I think you under estimate how powerful 2D is. To give a common scenario, 2D can be used after any stomp and it can effectively be looped into itself thanks to prejump and being able to use stomp A before they can recover (i.e. catch them once with 2D, again as they try to get up, stomp A to prevent a jump away, then back into 2D or what have you whether or not the stomp is blocked.). It also catches standing and crouching characters, which 5D does not. Sure it's a hard knockdown but it creates an entire set up where you get to force a 3 way guess (high/low/grab) on their part as to what you do next, and if they try to tech roll, it's a free grab which forces the situation again. To hit 5D, you essentially have to predict a run in or a poke at range where you back dash to make sure the rope even connects. Of course, if they're cautious, the can just duck or jump to get away without really losing any steam. It's useable in combos but doesn't create the same destructive position that 2D does since they can tech immediately if stagger's up or it's already been used where 2D gives me a chance to set up at any point it hits.
I do think 4D is perfectly fine against the cast. But having some more, despite being a grounded character while Tian can fly overhead and you have to play a numbers game of which risk you want to try at the cost of maybe losing position, hoping you don't get hit, thinking about just waiting for Tian to move before you commit, etc. It doesn't sound too farfetch'd for Arizona to have a steeper rope angle on 1D or something.So, for her to have two AA options, one of which has one active frame, the other of which has 4 and next to being just as long as her jab, I just don't see how that makes sense in a game where four of six characters can stall falling/halt the jump at any point in their movement (velvet using a snowflake or Icecicle mid jump, Ollie's double jump/read, Pom's float/air dash, Tian's fly/air dash). All four of them can close the distance and get in without going in 4D range entirely while staying airborne. Would it really clash if it was essentially something like a straight or even down angled 2D in air that didn't affect the jump arc and still caused just as much recovery on a whiff?
The matchup is definitely in Tian's favor. That is something that everyone here as agreed on and feelings or shots aside, you should be actively absorbing what everyone has to say here Koren. Not just me or Keet or Bubble.mentioned are content to say 'it's fine' and move on. He also kinda threw me under the bus and acted like I didn't know how to play the game even though we used to play regularly and I would take games regularly, so I'm not super inclined to trust him here.
Discord shit-fling aside, I agree with this. To be honest, I have zero interest in trying to talk about things on discord since they get washed out way too quickly and I don't really want to deal with the sheer amount of people, all at once and have to deal with people blowing up my DMs or the channel and community getting too cliquish even if I like all of you. And, I think posts like this are important to have around so that people can actually go back and read it instead of it getting corrupted over time like a game of telephone if it was a Discord back-and-forth.I mean, please respond in anyway you feel, that's what the forums are for, but preferably keep it civil and make it have a purpose. You can chew me out on discord. The point of that statement was to agree with what you were saying, and try get this conversation to move to the forums where there's permanence and I can go back and read the things that are said.