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  3. 26.6.18: Situation update

    Current Early Access Patch: 8-18-2018

Cam's Notation and Input Primer

Discussion in 'Beginner Forum' started by CamTSB, Mar 25, 2017.

  1. CamTSB

    CamTSB 死の匂いか?
    Staff Member Mane6 QA

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    A quick point, this guide will be a pretty basic level explanation of inputs and notation, and thus will not likely help anyone but players new to the genre. As TFH will be an extremely good starting place for people who haven't played fighting games seriously before, I figure it is a perfect time to start to get those people caught up to speed.

    Alright, I've seen a bit of confusion about some input notation, as well as some types of fighting game inputs recently on the forums. These are very common to see with people that aren't as familiar with the different notation styles as well as different naming schemes for inputs themselves, so I figured I could put together a little cheat-sheet type thing so people can figure out what it is someone has said to them without putting their lack of knowledge out in the open and possibly be mocked over.

    Let's start somewhere simple. Notation.

    I said simple, and I lied right to your face. I really did. The issue here is that different types of games will use different types of notation writing styles, and different players will write their notation out differently from others as well. Let's break them down into two categories here really quickly to give the easiest look at it all.

    Street Fighter style notation vs Anime style notation.

    The biggest and most important difference you are going to see is the type of notation used for your directional inputs (read: The movement of your character on screen).

    Street Fighter style notation will use something like this:
    [​IMG]

    This is pretty easily understandable just because of how the words relate to the direction. Nothing too difficult to grasp, but becomes a bit of a chore to use with the abbreviations of some directions mixed with close, far, and any command normals.

    Anime inputs use something called "Numpad Notation" and looks like this:
    [​IMG]

    Now, this one may be a bit more difficult to understand where it is coming from, but I assure you it is much more simple than first glance may give away. If you're sitting at a computer right now and look down at the numerical pad on the end of your keyboard that you likely have, you'll notice that those numbers directly correlate to the ones on your numpad. It's very simple to just think of 5 as "neutral" where you aren't moving in any given direction and everything moving around it in the outer 8 buttons.

    With both forms of directional notation, when written (unless specified by the writer) all notation is written from the perspective of the Player 1 side, facing from left to right. As most players put themselves as player 1 in training mode, this is just to simplify without going against natural thought processes.

    Now, I'm going to do something a bit unfair to you all right here. I want you to mainly focus on the Anime numpad notation if you are really only interested in TFH currently, as that is the notation we plan on using in the game and on most official stuff ourselves. It's going to make the rest of this easier for me to write out for all of you since I'm going to go into directional inputs for specials and supers, and all kinds of things to explain the words that have been common in the FGC for many a year.

    Next up is button notation. This one is not as cut and dry, as it varies based on what game you are speaking about. Very contextual. Street Fighter style games (Skullgirls included) have buttons for specific punches and kicks, whereas Blazblue (an Anime game) uses buttons A, B, C, and D going from lowest strength to highest.

    That's not true for all anime games, however, as some add in an E button as well (Arcana Heart and Nitro+ to name a couple) and some go a completely different direction all together. The biggest offender of this would be Guilty Gear. Everyone loves Guilty Gear, and it has some of the strangest button inputs a beginner could possibly see, with P, K, S, HS and D. Respectively, those are Punch, Kick, Slash, Heavy Slash, and Dust. Simple when you get used to it, no real understandable reasoning to it until you do. Fun times.

    For the sake of TFH stuff, we're going to be using the ABCD method, where D will be our Magic button. The reason I'm using D instead of M for Magic is quite simply to avoid confusion. M can also be seen as medium, which would be where our B would be, and that could just be a mess. Messes aren't fun when so many layers of notation styles are around.

    Right, here comes the actual notations.

    236 - QCF - Quarter Circle Forward: Your standard fireball input. Not always a fireball, but usually is. Learn this. Learn this right now if you don't know it. Then practice it constantly until you don't drop it.

    214 - QCB - Quarter Circle Back: The same thing as above, just backwards. What it actually does will vary by character, as will most everything that isn't a QCF or a DP. And with that said...

    623 - DP/SRK - Dragon Punch/Shoryuken: If you've ever seen Street Fighter, this is Ryu's big uppercut move. Any form of invincible reversal type of move will almost always be referred to as "a DP" so get used to seeing that everywhere.

    421 - RDP - Reverse Dragon Punch: Again, same as above, but backwards. Will vary on character/game as to what it does. Not seen as often as the other short inputs.

    Okay boys and girls, time for the fun ones.

    41236 - HCF - Half Circle Forward: Just what it says on the tin. 180 degrees of something powerful (usually) and potentially full of counterhit goodness.

    63214 - HCB - Half Circle Back: Backwards version of the above, usually some kind of command grab, but not always.

    Now, the next two will be needing some explanation.

    6248(63214789)
    - 360 - It... it's a 360: This is the typical Street Fighter grappler move. Zangief's Spinning Piledriver uses this input.

    62486248(6321478963214789) - 720 - Right okay I better just explain this now. The 720 is used for super moves mostly for grapplers, and it a bit of a pain.

    Now the reason I'm listing two different numpad inputs for these is due to one simple fact: Games usually
    only need the four cardinal directions (Forward, Down, Backward, Up) in order to trigger the 360/720 input, with the 720 needing them twice in succession. This is one of those scenarios that doesn't look like it would favor numpad notation, as just saying "360" has numbers and conflicts with normal numpad notation by having a 0, but is always going to be by itself so there's less chance for confusion. Just use 360C or 720B or whatever to make everyone's life easier. It's harder to read than to do.

    You will also have inputs with multiple button presses, sometimes they will need to be two or three specific buttons, but more often than not it's just a combination of any attacking buttons that will get you what you want. These vary by game as well.

    Now I want to quickly cover charge moves, as when I got into fighting games while I knew what the move was supposed to be, I didn't understand the minute details behind them.

    [4]6 - This is a charge back to forward input. You hold back for a set amount of frames (varies per game) and then press forward and the attacking button that you choose. Notable for being Guile's Sonic Boom input.

    [2]8 - Charge down to up input. Hold down for a set amount of frames, and then press up and the attacking button of your choice again. Flash Kick. Almost always called a Flash Kick. The charge character's version of a DP.

    Important things to note about charge moves. You don't need to be walking backwards to charge backwards. All of your backwards inputs work. That means 7, 4 and 1 are all acceptable charging positions for a [4]6 input, and 1, 2 and 3 are all acceptable for a [2]8 input. That means that in order to hold your ground but continue charging, you are able to just hold 1 and crouch instead of walking backwards.

    [4]646 - Sonic Hurricane. The standard charge character super input. Charge back, then hit forward, back, forward and your attack button.

    [1]319
    - The triangle charge input. Very rarely seen, and when it IS seen, it isn't fun to do. Guile's Flash Explosion input in the SF4 series. Generally an irrelevant input.

    Charge moves aside, if a super in a Street Fighter game needs to be done, it will usually be one of the inputs above, but done twice. That means 236236 or 214214 and in some special cases 4123641236 and 6321463214. You will almost never see a double DP input, and you would be wise to avoid that if you ever see it. These are all written abbreviated simply with D for Double in front of the earlier abbreviations, so DQCF, DQCB, DHCF and DHCB.

    There are, however, other super inputs that would never be caught dead in a Street Fighter game. The most prominent would be the Guilty Gear/Blazblue super input.

    632146
    - Half Circle Back, and then to forward. Also seen in Melty Blood, and many other anime game. A staple input.

    Now the craziest input your likely to come accross while playing... respectable fighting games is probably...

    1632143
    - The Pretzel. Down back, half circle back, down forward. Not for the faint of heart. Sometimes can be shortcutted with a 720 input (Yes that is actually easier for some people than just doing the pretzel, it's not fun).

    Now for the fun part. I'm going to give you an extremely short tidbit of an Arizona combo and then break it down for you. Ready?

    2A>2B>5C>236A>236B>5D-5A>5B>5C>236A>236C>2D


    Seems pretty complicated at first, but lets break it down into some manageable chunks.

    2A>2B>5C

    A simple string of normals, going from weakest to strongest. Remember your numpad notation. 2A and 2B are done while crouching, as noted by the "2". The 5C is done standing, as 5 is a neutral, standing state.

    236A>236B


    This is where we get character specific. These are Ari's headbutts that I'm sure you're all rather familiar with at this point. They can be done twice in succession from the A version to either the B version or the C version, as seen later. Do the input once and hit A, then do it again and hit B this time. Simple things.

    5D

    Magic! This is Ari's neutral, horizontal rope attack. It catches the opponent, brings them to her, and leaves them in a stagger state ready to be beaten some more. Also fills one of Ari's magic stocks.

    5A>5B>5C

    Normals again, but this time for simplicity's sake everything is a standing normal.

    236A>236C

    Instead of the B version, we're going into the heavier C version afterwards which causes a tumbling animation.

    2D

    More magic! Ari's low rope attack will catch them as they tumble if you are quick on the draw, and it will swing them around to your opposite side and leave them in a knockdown state for you to pressure as they get back up.

    Put that all together, and you've got a nice little combo that pretty easily nets you two magic stocks!

    Disclaimer, all inputs, combos, and even normals are subject to change as the game is in a constant state of flux. Nothing is true, everything is permitted, etc. These are all here as a simple guideline for anyone to use in a learning process.

    That will be all for now on my end, if anyone has any questions relating to this please feel free to post here and I'll do what I can to help and update with questions that have been covered.

    As a bit of reading for anyone who would like to go that extra mile, I'd recommend this nice little FG player's guide that Keet(MPK) has been working on. A bit rough around the edges, but a fantastic place to start from.

    Fighting Game Beginner's Guide

    There's even some great glossaries on some of the pages in that guide that will help with a lot of jargon, as that tends to be a bit of an issue for new players as well. The FGC uses some pretty interesting terminology after all, including a lot of words originally stolen from the Japanese.
     
    #1 CamTSB, Mar 25, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2017
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  2. beta

    beta Mane6 Dev
    Staff Member Mane6 Developer

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    Just so it's totally clear to anyone passing by, this is absolutely not required reading for playing the game.

    This is just introducing a standard way that a lot of fighting game players communicate over forums and whatnot.
     
  3. Avering

    Avering Pew-Pew
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    I'm guessing this will be a bit more frequented after the game comes out, as the forums are quite empty. However do you think this could find a way into the game itself? Lot of players won't know about this here, and will probably try to make themselves understood (or understand others) in other places (like steam forums) and it might be useful to have this heads up. Or just a simple setting where the icons would be changed to either numbers or those lettery indicators.
     
    Delusional Dreamer likes this.
  4. KYMSnowman

    KYMSnowman Professional Potato
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    I'm curious now. What's the most complicated button input you guys have for a single move?
     
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  5. CamTSB

    CamTSB 死の匂いか?
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    It likely won't be in the game itself since the game will be able to use the assets of directionals and button inputs themselves rather than being a straight text format that this is explaining. Using in-game assets will be way easier to understand for people, but is not an option for other forums or any place where plain text is your only choice. We'll have a good tutorial already, do not worry. I'll see about the icon swap, since that already exists in a partial sense in games like Guilty Gear. I like the suggestion.

    Currently? Paprika super. To be completely fair though, it has had many different ways to input it since her initial creation.
     
  6. Rich Jammer

    Rich Jammer By the Numbers Accountant
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    So something like this for the game?
    Buttons.png
     
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  7. CamTSB

    CamTSB 死の匂いか?
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    Something similar, not going to be using all the same images obviously. There's no need for half of those because of the type of fighting game TFH is.
     
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  8. Pom d'or

    Pom d'or Gave himself a fake award
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    After reading this, I'm looking forward even more to the training mode feature.

    This is the first fighting game I've heard of that's going to have such an extensive training mode, even showing the player where they were late or early compared to the move they're trying to do (if I understand correctly form the stream). If that training mode is as good as it looks, then finally, after like two and half decades of failing at fighting games, I might actually learn to execute a qcf more than once an hour by accident.

    If you're going to have so many left-thumb-heavy moves with rolling and charging, then I hope that the training mode can help teach the timing of buttons within a move, and not just the timing of moves within a combo (as we've seen so far in the streams).

    Thanks and looking forward to the game!
     
  9. Orcool

    Orcool Loves you to death

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    Ok, so I'm a complete and utter noob & a tutorial would be really REALLY helpful so thanks for that, but is it in the current release or is it part of the features not currently in the game? Also I have a (super nooby) question about an input I just haven't figured out.motionsidontunderstand.png [​IMG] How do I execute these? I play in Keyboard & at first I thought I had to press both Forward & backwards & hold whichever it told me but that didn't work. Again, sorry for being an idiot, but if anybody could answer me I would FINALLY figure out that much.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Rodya

    Rodya Perpetually tired

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    You hold the stick right/left for roughly one second, and then you quickly move it to the other side while pressing A,B or C
     
  11. Orcool

    Orcool Loves you to death

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    Oh my goodness that makes so much sense. I'm so dumb. Thanks!
     
  12. PlasmaLotus

    PlasmaLotus I call the Teleport B the : Nothing Personal, Kid!

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    These are charge moves. They require you to hold the first input and press the second one after a short duration. So to get Pap's cartwheel you need to hold back for like 1.5 seconds (don't quote me on the amount of time, i'm not a beta backer...) and then press forward and one of the attack buttons. Hold forward a little while, and then press back and attack for her Zippy Teleport.
    You can charge these moves in any state; while crouching, while attacking, while getting hit... A neat thing you can do is hold back at the start of the combo, attack with 2A>2B>2C and hit Forward Attack after the 2C to chain in a cartwheel.
    Most people crouch to charge their moves since you don't move during your attack string and you can block as well.
     
  13. MisterRockett

    MisterRockett Backers' Beta Tester
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    Just as an aside pressing the button at the same time as the motion is complete isn't the BEST timing. A little bit after the motion is more likely to bring it out. Charges are weird but motion then button tends to be the universal method in fighting games with some games being more lenient than others.
     
  14. Pom d'or

    Pom d'or Gave himself a fake award
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    Thanks again for thi primer.
    I understand most of the notation here, but the notation for one move confuses me, the "Cross Canter."
    The notation says "(while blocking) :6::atkatk:", but "blocking" in this game means holding :4:, correct?
    So while holding :4:, also press :6:? Is that even possible on some controllers?
    Sorry, FG noob just trying to figure it all out.
     
  15. Snivian Moon

    Snivian Moon How I mine for combo?
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    A really good question! At first glance it is counter intuitive, so no worries there. I know you asked about the functionality of the Cross Canter in another thread - I hope you don't mind if I talk about the timing and inputs here.

    If I'm not mistaken, this move is a little tricky until you get the timing down. Basically you want to hold back until you get hit. Once the opponent connects with you, and you have successfully blocked, you enter a state called "Block Stun". Block stun is a duration of time in which you are unable to do anything until block stun is over - the game will keep you blocking. So if you tried to jump, attack, etc., the game would ignore your inputs. You are essentially locked into blocking. Cross Canter and Push Blocking are the exception!

    But this also means that you can release holding back, and you would be still in blockstun, and the opponent would still be blocked during that specific attack. So you can input the Cross Canter in that short window of opportunity! It'd look a little something like this:

    :4: (Hold back for defense)
    :4: (Hold back as the opponent's offense connects!)
    (You are now in block stun. Release holding back.)
    :6::+::atkatk: (Cross Canter!)

    The window of time in which these inputs are entered is just a handful of frames, so the timing is a little tough at first. Also, note that the Cross Canter does require half of one super bar to execute, so make sure you have that before attempting.
     
  16. Pom d'or

    Pom d'or Gave himself a fake award
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    That makes perfect sense! Thank you for the very clear explanation!
     
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  17. Snivian Moon

    Snivian Moon How I mine for combo?
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    No problem. I'm learning too, and it's a total blast. Hope you have fun out there! :olliebigsmile:
     
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  18. Someoneman

    Someoneman Crowdfund Backer
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    Is it just me or are quarter circles more strict in this game? Unless I start straight on down and end straight on forwards/back, the specials don't always work.
     
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  19. Ducky Quackington

    Ducky Quackington Backers' Beta Tester
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    I'm having trouble pulling off Pom's super(s), since each time I try and do it, it summons one of the dogs instead, since the dog summon uses the same input except the super uses two attacks rather than one.
     
  20. MisterRockett

    MisterRockett Backers' Beta Tester
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    Brought this up in another topic but don't press the button at the same time you input the final direction of your command. Make it a little bit afterward. Less than a a fraction of a second but still after the motion is complete. Your inputs should come out more consistently.
     
  21. QuoteMarks

    QuoteMarks This is a bug.

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    There's an option in Training mode that lets you see what inputs the game is reading and I can confirm you have to press the attack after the motion.

    Also a general thing I found, if you are using a pad* I would suggest using the directional pad as opposed to the joystick. Made my directional inputs much more consistent.

    *Xbox, Dual-shock, Steam, Average video game controller. Xbox in my case
     
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  22. Ducky Quackington

    Ducky Quackington Backers' Beta Tester
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    Nevermind, figured it out!
     
  23. Norad2

    Norad2 As unprepared for TFH as Pom.
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    So is this the thread where I ask "How do I block," or should I start a thread for the most basic of basics?

    In all seriousness, to block you apparently hold :4:. But what does that mean on an Xbox controller?

    Am I holding the stick making my character walk backwards until attacked, automatically transitioning into a block?
     
  24. Salty Beef

    Salty Beef Fau Con, at your service.

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    Eyup, that's how it works in allot of fighter games.
     
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  25. Norad2

    Norad2 As unprepared for TFH as Pom.
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    [​IMG]
     
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  26. Someoneman

    Someoneman Crowdfund Backer
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    Yes.
    If you don't want to walk backwards, you can hold :1: instead to crouch and block, but that won't block jumping attacks and certain other attacks (known as "overheads"). However, crouch-blocking is the only way to block certain low attacks, so you need to figure out how to block each attack.
    The Skullgirls tutorial mentions that crouch-blocking is usually preferable, unless your opponent is jumping or using an overhead, because while most overheads are slow enough to let you stand up in time, low attacks tend to be much faster (most if not all crouching light attacks are low). This advice should apply to this game (and most other 2D fighters as well).

    EDIT: I swear I started typing this before the other replies were made
     
  27. Pom d'or

    Pom d'or Gave himself a fake award
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    That's the thing about fighting games: for beginners (like me) is can really seem like the controls are not necessarily 'on your side', but I think they way they force you to make choices is an intentional mechanic.
    You want to block a lot, but you don't want to be backed up all the way to the edge of the arena.
    So the trick is to learn to watch your opponent and block only when you need to, so you can stand your ground.
    (At least, I think that's how it works. I am still terrible at noticing when I need to block, but the training mode does help practice that kind of thing.)
     
  28. Timeline15

    Timeline15 New Member

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    Ok, so something about moves that require a chain of inputs is confusing me (playing on keyboard btw):

    Say a move requires :6::3::6::atk:, Does that mean I start holding right, transition to holding both down and right, and then back to just right, before pushing the attack button? And if so, what time frame do I need to do this within for the game to recognise it's a combo?
    Also, do I release the directional keys before pushing attack, or do some or all of them need to be held down while pressing attack?
     
  29. MisterRockett

    MisterRockett Backers' Beta Tester
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    That looks like a dragon punch but not quite right.
    The motion is actually :6::2::3: so to the right, down, down right.
    Motion then the button right after. Not at the same time as the last input for the motion.
     
  30. Timeline15

    Timeline15 New Member

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    I was just using those specific directions as an example, but cheers, that explanation of how manoeuvres work is helpful.
     
  31. Jordan Jackson

    Jordan Jackson Crowdfund Backer
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    This might be a bit off topic, but I didn't see a training or practice thread so I thought I'd just ask here.
    In Tekken (maybe not all of em, I think it mighta just been 5 or 6) when you're in the training room and you go to the command list and ask it to show you the move, it shows the command at the top of the screen and then while the character is doing the move the commands light up when you're supposed to press them and it also makes a little noise so you can kinda hear the rhythm. I was wondering if tfh was planning on implementing something similar because there were a good couple of moves in Tekken where I thought the assumed the timing was supposed to be one way but when I checked on the commands it was actually totally different, and I think the same thing might be happening here too.
     
  32. Nintyuk

    Nintyuk Professor Bright Spark
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    OHH MY GAWD THIS SAVED ME! THIS HERE. THANKYOU SO MUCH!

    I was having so much trouble with quarter circle inputs for summoning dogs, I was pressing the attack button too early!
    You have to wait till after you complete the motion to press the button as it actually has a forgiving window.

    It's also great for if I want to try setting up steam controller macros again.