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Anyone else feel like it's all an uphill battle?

Unonemous

Puppet Master
Mar 4, 2018
14
20
Before I say anything, let me state that I'm not a very good player. I barely consider myself below mediocre. But, even then, I'm not bad to the point that I don't know combos, how to tech, and how to block properly

Regardless of all that...It feels like every battle is an uphill battle to me, whether I'm better than, much worse than, or equal to my opponent.

Velvet is a game of headbutt the icicles until you can get close, the chip damage gets ridiculous, and flying results in a puffball to the back of the skull.
Oleander doesn't even need to combo you to kill you
Paprika is nothing but a never-ending guessing game that ends with a 50% hit to the face
Pom's skills with the canine mace is unmatched across the lands, though, hardly anyone plays her, so, I don't get to learn that fight much.
Arizona, and mirrors seem like the only place where it's not quite the struggle, and it feels like a more direct fight for control over one another

I obviously know what a high-level Tian can do. I've run into really good players that make moving impossible, and keep you glued to the corner like you were fused to the thing. But, even then, if you manage to hit them once, it seems like a scramble for them to get their footing. As a bad player myself, the game's always a hassle to get my lead going, but what do all my fellow Tian players think? Heck, what do you non-Tians think? Am I much worse than I already perceive myself to be, or is noodlehorse a bit off center?

Give me some insight into your own thoughts, and processes.
 

VendiMANS

Argentine fgs player
Feb 5, 2018
45
62
Buenos Aires
as a tian main I kinda agree with all that, the thing is that you need to learn to move very fast with her otherwise its game over. You don't get long range magic-free good recover hits like Oleander's air down c or Pom's air c but at least if you land beside the enemy while hitting air c you hit tehm from behind which is pretty useful and you get to fly. And you can also cancel your jump forward with your flight and bait the enemy to antiair you and punish them
But that's it in my opninion, I'm not a pro either, I have less than 100hs but hey I've seen good Tian mains, she's not useless compared to the others but she's pretty tricky like those Pom mains than know how to place their puppy traps that are so strong that put Oleander's in shame
 
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Unonemous

Puppet Master
Mar 4, 2018
14
20
as a tian main I kinda agree with all that, the thing is that you need to learn to move very fast with her otherwise its game over. You don't get long range magic-free good recover hits like Oleander's air down c or Pom's air c but at least if you land beside the enemy while hitting air c you hit tehm from behind which is pretty useful and you get to fly. And you can also cancel your jump forward with your flight and bait the enemy to antiair you and punish them
But that's it in my opninion, I'm not a pro either, I have less than 100hs but hey I've seen good Tian mains, she's not useless compared to the others but she's pretty tricky like those Pom mains than know how to place their puppy traps that are so strong that put Oleander's in shame
I definitely don't feel like Tian's useless, but it sometimes feels like nothing will work, but, as stated before, I'm not exactly great. I do, however, agree that Pom is easily the most potentially lethal, with potential being the key word. Pom's gotta do a LOT of work to get those setups going. Air heavy won't win the game for her.

One thing that gets to me is her priority. I definitely understand that if she had high priority, she'd be absurdly broken, but shouldn't her aerials at least have the ability to contest short-ranged stuff in the air? I've had countless times where my AirC actually loses to crouching attacks with short range, like Velvet's low Light.

Although, maybe it's just me. It's entirely possible that my timing's just terribad.
 

Arcanel

Backers' Beta Tester
Backers' Beta Tester
Feb 3, 2016
71
64
As one of the "main" Tian mains I guess, pun not intended, I would say that Tianhuo as a whole is a very strong character but, like every other character, does have matchups in which we're not particularly in favor or have to work the most.

There's also the fact that even if you may have great tools as Tianhuo, you will more than probably have to learn how to use them properly otherwise they're not good for much. Even people who throw around Oleander's j.2C and Pom's j.C will eventually get beaten down if they don't really know what they're doing and especially once they get hit themselves.

Oleander and Pom in particular are Tianhuo's biggest struggles in matchups, particularly because of the spacing. Their big normals don't allow us to reach properly, and therefore it becomes a chore of "Did you time it right or bait the normal? Too bad, now you're down". Oleander IS not impossible though. Once you learn the hitboxes and when to block and when to attack (and jumping and blocking is so important), then approaching her becomes a little easier. Pom's j.C might be beatable but the other problem is Momma Dog, who by mere reason of the fact Pom can combine her j.C AND having Momma wait for the counter attack means you have to be extremely careful in your approaches or really try to confuse the Pom player into getting hit. Most importantly is to not let them get in your head so that you don't end up scrambling for a hit that will make you make a mistake.

It should be noted that once Tianhuo gets in, resourceless characters in general are in big, big trouble, because then they have to start guessing just how to defend against Tian's blockstrings, her pressure in general, when to challenge, if the hit is gonna cross up or not, etc. And if they do have resources, most can be baited and punished right afterwards.

Velvet, you always have to think of blocking first before approaching, but especially if she doesn't have magic then she's way more vulnerable because she can't snipe you out of the air. Just watch for buttons and then wail the pressure on her (and watch out for the reversal too).

Arizona without resources is the one who struggles the absolute most against Tianhuo, and capitalizing on that is the best way to go about things, she can't reach you at certain height levels, she's usually the one who has to eat the most pressure from Tian.

Paprika's unpredictability is usually the biggest problem and especially facing those resets in the corner, and the wakeup after super but that's something basically everyone has to struggle against, it's not something that only Tian suffers with. The problem with facing her is that flying is always something to be careful of because of Teleport C but once you learn her hitboxes and learn not to go onto the heights all that often until the Pap player starts to respect you, things become less aggravating to think about.
 

Unonemous

Puppet Master
Mar 4, 2018
14
20
-snip-snap!-
This all certainly seems right long-range disjointed hitboxes are a huge pain when things go as is. I think my main problem is that it seems like when I try to get that defensive lineup going, I'm afraid to pushblock, because capitalizing on a bad blockstring seems easier than attempting to approach certain characters. I tend to get pushblocked a lot myself, because when I get the setup to finally get my overhead in, the two-hit status of it sends me back another ten feet that I have to regain. I'm also afraid of neutral jumping, because when I finally get the idea is when people stop turtling. I must be predictable, though, I like to chalk it up to bad luck, because things like to end that way for me, hehe.

I know that once I get people into the corner, I start going in, and I try to shut down all attempts to move or retaliate that I can, and though, it obviously doesn't always work out. Luckily, even if Oleander and Velvet get a teleport, and I-frame knockback respectively, at least they have to get the input right at the proper time to make sure they don't take the hit any way. Though, the more I play, the more Paprika becomes an insane character to me. I still find the potential of an unchecked Pom the scariest thing in the game, but Paprika existing is just a kind of pressure. I don't really know how to properly block her strings since sweater is an overhead, and I can't go nuts in the corner to keep her down, because of teleports, and her super. One hit, and the nightmare is back up front. The best I can do is back off a bit after my first combo ends, and hope to bait out a teleport, or a super, or something along those lines.

I'm also honestly glad I'm getting legitimate responses. I usually avoid most forums, and fighting games aren't a genre I put time into. Streamers, and tourneys are where all my knowledge comes from. (Also cool to see Arcanel chiming in!)
 

Arcanel

Backers' Beta Tester
Backers' Beta Tester
Feb 3, 2016
71
64
This all certainly seems right long-range disjointed hitboxes are a huge pain when things go as is. I think my main problem is that it seems like when I try to get that defensive lineup going, I'm afraid to pushblock, because capitalizing on a bad blockstring seems easier than attempting to approach certain characters. I tend to get pushblocked a lot myself, because when I get the setup to finally get my overhead in, the two-hit status of it sends me back another ten feet that I have to regain. I'm also afraid of neutral jumping, because when I finally get the idea is when people stop turtling. I must be predictable, though, I like to chalk it up to bad luck, because things like to end that way for me, hehe.

I know that once I get people into the corner, I start going in, and I try to shut down all attempts to move or retaliate that I can, and though, it obviously doesn't always work out. Luckily, even if Oleander and Velvet get a teleport, and I-frame knockback respectively, at least they have to get the input right at the proper time to make sure they don't take the hit any way. Though, the more I play, the more Paprika becomes an insane character to me. I still find the potential of an unchecked Pom the scariest thing in the game, but Paprika existing is just a kind of pressure. I don't really know how to properly block her strings since sweater is an overhead, and I can't go nuts in the corner to keep her down, because of teleports, and her super. One hit, and the nightmare is back up front. The best I can do is back off a bit after my first combo ends, and hope to bait out a teleport, or a super, or something along those lines.

I'm also honestly glad I'm getting legitimate responses. I usually avoid most forums, and fighting games aren't a genre I put time into. Streamers, and tourneys are where all my knowledge comes from. (Also cool to see Arcanel chiming in!)
As someone who suffers a lot against Paprika in general, trust me, I get you, I really, really do. But something I've come to learn against Pap is that patience is something you'll have to think off against her. The worst thing you can do when playing against a Pap player, is to let them in your head, once that happens, it's gonna be an uphill struggle full and through. This usually works against everyone (against Ari a little less so), and once you know what to do and when to get in, and to not let your inability to get in to frustrate you, you'll be able to deal with the surprise things much better. Pap players have to generally risk a lot when trying to do their stuff, very high risk and high reward because of it. So don't forget that they're under pressure too that if their stuff doesn't work? Now it's their problem because they'll most likely get punished for it.

I'm by no means the best Tian player either in combo tech or in good ol' neutral but I like to think at least my hundreds of hours of experience with the character are good for something haha.
 
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Kastor

Active Member
Mar 14, 2018
35
41
Us Ari's are in a similar camp. Though I think we have a better time vs Pap than you do. Suffice to say we are always hoping for another Ari or Tian to fight. Oleander and Velvet are a nightmare to fight.
 

Unonemous

Puppet Master
Mar 4, 2018
14
20
As someone who suffers a lot against Paprika in general, trust me, I get you, I really, really do. But something I've come to learn against Pap is that patience is something you'll have to think off against her. The worst thing you can do when playing against a Pap player, is to let them in your head, once that happens, it's gonna be an uphill struggle full and through. This usually works against everyone (against Ari a little less so), and once you know what to do and when to get in, and to not let your inability to get in to frustrate you, you'll be able to deal with the surprise things much better. Pap players have to generally risk a lot when trying to do their stuff, very high risk and high reward because of it. So don't forget that they're under pressure too that if their stuff doesn't work? Now it's their problem because they'll most likely get punished for it.

I'm by no means the best Tian player either in combo tech or in good ol' neutral but I like to think at least my hundreds of hours of experience with the character are good for something haha.
I'm certainly glad it's not just me. When I first started playing, I got a good grab bag of fighting everyone, but these days, I swear it's 80% Paps that I fight. I guess I really do need to slow down against her, but it still feels like there's no right choice. I think it might be along the lines that Pap is a very easy noob killer. Even with me having been beaten down enough to know what I have to watch for, I get trampled with little effort, because every person who plays her seems to know how to do that 40% combo without skipping a beat, and I swear it links from any attack she lands.

The only thing I find legitimately questionable about Pap in terms of fairness, is that her sweater is an overhead, but it looks like a mid? I didn't know that it did so for my first 30 hours, because there was nothing there telling me it was visually.
>Insert "Sweater goes over your head" joke here, hehe.
 

Unonemous

Puppet Master
Mar 4, 2018
14
20
Us Ari's are in a similar camp. Though I think we have a better time vs Pap than you do. Suffice to say we are always hoping for another Ari or Tian to fight. Oleander and Velvet are a nightmare to fight.
These days, I WELCOME a fight against Velvet and Oleander. So many people play Pap, it feels like. Though, I'd still more than welcome an Ari or Pom fight, even if Pom scares me with the potential setups.
 
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